For more context, my small bakery had only 9 rolls of staking power over the lifetime of the Granada protocol on mainnet (cycles 387-427). Over the course of those ~4 months, my 9 rolls have earned about 1,400 tez in rewards. And that’s with all the daily endorsement misses that plagued Granada, as well as more baking misses in Granada than I’ve had in all previous protocols combined (baking since cycle 11).
Imagine dividing that, or a large portion of it, among the 8 bakers who are currently baking on Kaizen. That’s 175 tez per baker. I’m sure there would be more than 8 bakers on Kaizen in short order with numbers like that.
Even if we divide that by 9 to estimate how much a single roll baker would earn, that’s nearly 20 tez to each of the 8 bakers on Kaizen. That’s not too bad, and better than nothing.
A perpetual testnet could update to the new proposal before voting. If it passes the vote the testnet can keep it. If the vote fails, the testnet could reset to before the upgrade.
A “testnet” comes with the implicit expectation that things might break and need to be reset. I see no problem with that being part of the plan to begin with.
Even intentional in cases of turning the network over to those that fund its operation for periods of time.
I should also clarify that by “reset” I do not mean back to the Genesis block, I mean to a previous agreed-upon checkpoint.
Couple hours each week? That’s too much? Anyone spending longer than this amount is clearly doing something wrong. I’ve gone literal months without ever logging into my baking server.
Hi Krixt. What is the name of your baker? Time to set up payments(TRD), promote the baker, help people delegate, pushing updates, fixing bond issues. These are all points that can take up a decent amount of time. Idiazabal-net has already been restarted twice and it has only been a week or two. Do you participate in testnet baking?
Setting up TRD takes about 10-15m and once it is configured it runs without interaction. Sometimes there is a kink, but those happen about once a month and takes an hour or two to fix.
I think I spent about 4 hours total (3 years ago) “promoting” my baker (ie: single post on reddit, filling out forms to get listed on Ledger Live and in other wallets). I have not promoted my baker via posts or any other media since then and I’ve been at 90% capacity for the past 2 years (1M+ XTZ delegations).
Pushing updates happens rarely too; When new Octez version goes GA, do the update. Takes less than an hour once every few months.
I don’t fix bond issues cause I don’t have extra capital so nothing to do there.
Yes, I’ve been running bakinbacon on Granadanet and now Hangzhounet since their inceptions. Not on Idiazabalnet, but sounds like it isn’t stable yet.
Currently We have 2x nodes with the baker config on them running on opppossite sides of the world(UK and Japan). We have a Yubico hsm 2.0 on each one. We use Signatory to sign the transactions(made by Ecad Labs @jevonearth ).
Sorry, I don’t have the time to figure this out… sadly due to the comments on this thread we have lost a lot of support for a perpetual tesntet. Perhaps I shouldn’t have brought this to Tezos Agora.
I just re-read the thread. Sounds like core dev killed the idea because it doesn’t solve any of their issues.
That’s too bad because non-core devs are asking for this testnet all the time. Many have stopped testing on testnet because they go away every 3-6 months.
I guess even 1000 lashes on someone else’s back is not enough.
My Solana and Eth friends, even bsc friends laughed at me when I said our devs have to redeploy smart contracts every 3 months. They said there is no way they would move to develop on tezos if they had to do rework like that. They also said that is probably one of the biggest hindrances to getting devs to move to Tezos. I’m grateful to all of our devs we have now that have dealt with this core issue for so long…
What is on public display here is that Kaizen was reliant on the voluntary participation of one dev ( apparently, correct me where I am wrong). That is not very robust or sustainable.
If I had not already decided against the project I would be even less enthused to invest my time and energy into it.
I want a testnet as well. I started a post about it here right after Granada. I have been looking to get general understanding and support for my vision before pouring lots of personal time and resources into it.
Someone has to pay for a perpetual testnet. Is there anyone that thinks it isn’t required? Most devs definitely feel the need and would want to make sure their dapps work before any upgrade.
Seems the dispute is mainly about how it should be funded and whether it could end up in a fork. How many bakers are required to successfully run this? Can’t TF just fund it? Isn’t that the whole point of their $$$? To fund public goods for the ecosystem - not hoard it.
I don’t believe a perpetual testnet must be continually funded from the outside. I think it can be revenue generating and self sustaining. ( see my post on the topic back in August )
TF can fund certain things, at least for awhile but eventually it needs to be self sustaining as they won’t be around forever.
I am glad they did not rush into funding Kaizen as it has proven to be poorly planned and executed. It’s always so easy to spend someone else’s money.
Please don’t give up on this, I was so happy when I heard about it especially because for the first time I didn’t have to walk through the codebase to change every single rpc endpoint string to the latest testnet, then also fork all contracts to that testnet, and change the URL of the API I use to read data from the blockchain to point to that testnet. It feels extremely frustrating when your product stops working every month or two because rpc servers get shutdown in favour of newer versions and you have to stop everything you are doing to fix it and even then every other day you find another place where you missed to change the url. The worst part is that users and potential investors can easily stumble onto a prototype that was killed not because of the developers but because of the current system of testnets. I don’t see how anyone could see Kaizen as anything less than essential and urgently needed unless they are incompetent or lack any sort of experience in blockchain development on any chan.
I am not knowledgeable about the requirements necessary to run a node on this testnet but I would happily do it if It I can afford to.
