Tenderbake - Connection to IBC (Cosmos Ecosystem) possible?

Hello!
Tenderbake has as we know a lot of similarities to Tendermint. Once it is implemented, how hard is it to include the IBC (inter blockchain communication) module? With this module we would be able to connect in a permissionless manner to the whole Cosmos ecosystem (Luna, Cosmos, Osmosis DEX, Band, Sentinel, Juno, Akash and many more). I see some potential there for Tezos. Is this something that the team is aware? Any pros and cons from @NomadicLabs @murbard?

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From my understanding, Tezos would have to build a side bridge to be connected. Just because Tezos is implementing tendermint consensus, this doesn’t mean we are attached to IBC.

I believe @murbard has mentioned we would lose more from a bridge than we would gain. In other words we would just be making Cosmos stronger.

Following is an opinion of a user that has interest in both IBC and Tezos.

First of all, I would like to see a more detailed reasoning behind the idea that Tezos will lose and it would just make Cosmos stronger.

Cosmos has lots of different means of generating income for users (e.g. Osmosis pools, Anchor on Terra, staking JUNO, OSMO, ATOM, etc…) so what I think will happen - if Tezos theoretically supports IBC - is that the users interested in #CleanNFT’s on Tezos will use some of their gains and transfer them to Tezos in order to purchase these NFTs.

E.g. What I have to do now, if I e.g. want to spend my Osmosis rewards on Tezos, is the following:

  • swap OSMO rewards to e.g. ATOM
  • send ATOM to an exchange
  • swap ATOM to stablecoin
  • swap stablecoin to Tezos
  • then send Tezos to my Tezos wallet

So we’re spending on fees on almost every step in the process. It’s not very feasible for smaller amounts.

With IBC that would be very different.

Theoretically, with IBC, if Tezos is available on Osmosis, the imagined scenario would be:

  • convert rewards to Tezos
  • do an IBC transfer to the Tezos Wallet
    (that’s it!)

There can be many other benefits, e.g. Tezos could be farmed on Osmosis, for example the LUNA-OSMO, UST-OSMO and LUNA-UST pools are now number 2, 3 and 4 by liquidity - and before Terra upgrading to support IBC, some people also were afraid that joining IBC will ‘benefit more Cosmos’

https://info.osmosis.zone/pools

If Tezos is incorporated on more chains that would increase the adoption of Tezos in general as well.

If Tezos has strong fundamentals (which I believe it does), we should not be afraid of having a winder agenda.

The relation could be mutualistic.

How would we lose by being connected to Cosmos ecosystem? That seems like a very short sighted opinion, unless it’s in regards to economics- Tezos is kind of boxed in without much interoperability with the main offramp being CEX, maybe he’s concerned that with cosmos interoperability many frustrated xtz holders would have an easy off-ramp to dump their xtz?

Yeah, so the answer according to Arthur is protectionism, that went well for the American consumer in every example in history of protectionism was applied, right? Open borders for commerce and economic activity definitely won’t help the tezos dapp consumers. We must remain isolated then.

Cosmos has a questionable security model (meaning you’re as weak as the weakest chain in the cosmosverse). A bridge without really careful considerations is a huge risk, and, where’s the interest?

meaning you’re as weak as the weakest chain in the cosmosverse

Can you elaborate on this for the group please?

I would also say that the influx of additional utility not currently handled (or planned) on Tezos and the captured eyebalss on the existing Tezos NFT platforms more than qualifies for “interest”.

Let’s define security as the cost to undermine a network. Lower security = cheaper to successfully attack a network. With chains on chains on chains, you’re bound to have some chains (and their tokens) with lower TVL than others. This makes them easier (less costly) to exploit. Without a shared security model, launching a new token with low TVL, and using a chain with low TVL is risky.

In Polkadot, each chain has the same security guarantees (shared security) – the DOT token is used to secure the network across all chains. In Cosmos, each chain can offer its own level of security, with no oversight between them. Pushing security to each chain allows for risk - if a chain I bridge to cares less, or has a less robust security model than another chain then my security bound has been lowered.

Now, Cosmos is introducing a shared security model that allows validators of Cosmos hubs to use their resources to secure para-chains and get additional rewards.

Here is the official Cosmos post announcing interchain security. This just came out a few weeks ago! I think after a successful launch Cosmos will be a much stronger player.

Ah, that’s what you were referring to. I too am excited for the release of Interchain Security.

meaning you’re as weak as the weakest chain in the cosmosverse

That’s a wrong way to say that then. You’re only at risk if you’re operating on an insecure chain. Tezos doing an IBC connection does not weaken the security stance of Tezos in the slightest.

A better way to phrase it is if you’re connecting to another chain on Cosmos that has lower TVL then there’s greater risk in exploit on that chain, which could weaken your chain.