Media attention regarding Tezos Mumbai upgrade

I got inspired by the last thread about Lima upgrade coverage:

Now in around 6h Mumbai will move into the final phase and with this signigicant upgrade its great material for wide media coverage.

Now there are a few articles on Nomadic Labs blog about Mumbai and Rollups:

Also the TezTalk:

From last year the Twitter Spaces with Yann Regis Gianas
https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1ynJOaQDDjwKR

But it would be good to cover the space on other media outlets too.
Especially in combination with a SCORU/WASM demo! This has the potential to get great attention :slight_smile:

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To be honest I am still not sure how the rollups work. Maybe because I am used to the concept of a “single” Layer 2 like Arbitrum or Optimism. But the Tezos solution is like every rollup is its own Layer 2?

  • I keep hearing that TPS are not a problem but the latency - its possible to increase TPS but not latency. Why?

  • All transactions are still submitted to L1 before reaching the sequencer for L2. If this is the case then I still need to wait 15s for my operation to be submitted?

  • Is it possible to get another blogpost about SCORUs that describes various examples/scenarios?

  • I read often that SCORU is superior compared to other Layer 2 solutions (e.g. Arbitrum, Optimism, Polygon). But I would like to know the facts, why is that the case?

  • We keep reading about 1M TPS on Layer2 but wouldnt that be super expensive? Alone for every rollup to lock 10k Tezos sounds not realistic?

  • When I remember correctly in the Teztalk I heard if we need to scale we just deploy more rollups but this feels so arbitrary - what are the max. numbers possible for a rollup? Often when I try to pitch tezos rollups people are sceptical of the 1m TPS I say. In fact this is not possible to reach with one rollup but with many - so what is the difference: I also could just deploy Arbitrum a hundred times and say it can reach 1m TPS (I did not made that up, this was a response to me in a conversation, and I legit could not answer that)

  • ZK-Rollups are enabled on Mondaynet but there is no single word in the docs that says how to try them out, despite the fact that the blogposts say we are invited to try them out.

  • I read that it is necessary to have a synthetic tezos token on L2. Why is it not possible to use simple Tezos XTZ?

  • It is said that I cannot withdraw from L2 immediately. I must wait two weeks. I see this as a hurdle for onboarding. Noone likes to wait a couple of minutes and especially two weeks to receive their assets. Is this the final design solution?

  • I saw the Marigold tutorial to write your own Kernel. I imagine to easy attract devs etc that there should be a ready “general purpose kernel” available to use/modify/deploy for everyone provided by the core teams? I dont know for example in Rust, Javascript and Ocaml? This would ease the process and attract more people. Is something like this planned or is my idea just plain stupid?

  • Same goes for the EVM/IBC kernel. I think there should also a “general purpose EVM/IBC kernel” available to everyone to modify/deploy…

  • Often I read on Twitter but who will use a rollup - I thought that there will be a “general” rollup for everyone deployed by the core teams, foundation etc and if devs need their own solution they can make use of the available tools and deploy their own too?

  • And how does the validation process work, to validate the rollup, can everyone just join and be a validator? The only requirement is that I do I need to put in a stake as a validator to ensure I will behave honestly?

  • And why do we need for L2 a DAC and DAL?

It makes the impression for me that on one hand everyone shares everywhere some phrases “rollups on tezos!”, “enshrined”, “fraud proof”, “1m TPS”, but the majority cant explain whats behind. Me neither. And when looking for the information it makes the impression that the whole process is rushed.

So many questions and I feel like I have way more… when AMA :face_with_monocle:

Hello @d4hines I saw you answering Rollup related Questions. When you have time could you please take a look and if you can then help with at least the first 5-6 questions? Or someone from @NomadicLabs ? Thank you!

Hi @Britcoin! At NFT.NYC right now so I don’t have a time to answer. But how about this - I’ll answer until I run out of time. In exchange, would you mind posting these questions on StackExchange? That’s where we’re trying to aggregate techincal Q&A for now.

I keep hearing that TPS are not a problem but the latency - its possible to increase TPS but not latency. Why?

And

All transactions are still submitted to L1 before reaching the sequencer for L2. If this is the case then I still need to wait 15s for my operation to be submitted?

I’ll answer these together.

The idea of rollups is to use the L1 to settle the order of operations, and execute the result of those operations off-chain. The idea of optimistic rollups is to delegate the validation of that off-chain to set of rollup validators who stake on the result of operations and can slash each other whenever a problem is detected via a mechanism called the refutation game.

Hence, you can’t have latency lower than the latency of the L1, since that’s what provides the inputs to the rollup. But you can have higher throughput through vertical scalability. While Tezos can on a Raspberry Pi, there’s no problem with requiring a 128-core machine with 1TB of RAM to keep up with your epic blockchain gaming rollup or whatever.

That’s rollups, pure and simple. But many rollups in the Ethereum ecosystem add an off-chain sequencer to the mix. By forcing transactions to go through a sequencer, the sequencer can provide optimistic results on the execution instantly, before they’re included in the L1. Naively implemented, the sequencer could sensor anyone with impunity; however, it’s fairly straightforward to include a “delayed inbox” that allows anyone to include an operation in the rollup via the L1 in the case of censorship or the sequencer goes down. Smart Rollups don’t ship with a sequencer out of the box since it doesn’t make sense for every application; however, we’re developing demo projects that demonstrate how to integrate a sequencer for optimistic low latency in your app.

That’s all for now.

When you develop a rollup app, the kernel (basically, the code run by the rollup - think of it as a smart contract written in WASM and excuted off-chain) takes in inputs, computes something, and writes outputs. The inputs are all from the L1, and the outputs are to your rollups persistent storage. A special place in persistent storage is used as the outbox for communicating back to the L1.

Is it possible to get another blogpost about SCORUs that describes various examples/scenarios?

Yes. Me and another SORU dev are working on this. In the meantime, check out https://twitter.com/danhines09/status/1645878625294598145?s=20

I read often that SCORU is superior compared to other Layer 2 solutions (e.g. Arbitrum, Optimism, Polygon). But I would like to know the facts, why is that the case?

I’ll try to tackle this in another blog post. Explaining the comparisons concisely is still a challenge for me. But if you look at the above Twitter thread, and then start digging into https://l2beat.com, you’ll see Smart Rollups excel in many dimensions. We have a lot of polishing to do, but no other solution has what we have. I attribute this directly to our ability to ship upgrades quickly. Enshrined rollups took <2 years to ship to mainnet. I’d love to see a prediction market on when an enshrined rollup EIP hits mainnet on Ethereumm.

That’s all I got for now. Great questions! I can’t express how valuable prompts for information-sharing like this are to the core teams.

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Thank you very much @d4hines really. I will create an account in the next few days and add the content to Stackexchange. I need to read your answers careafully tomorrow and will let you know if I have any other questions, its late here now :slight_smile: Thanks again!

Hello @Britcoin if you are ok with it I can add the questions to stackexchange and then @d4hines can copy paste your answers to get reputation :slight_smile: let me know, happy to help!

Its on my list but if you want to you can add the questions, thanks for the help!

Just tag me here (or better, Slack), when you want me to post something.

Added the first batch of questions from here and messaged you on slack :slight_smile: Will continue later so its not many at once.

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